From Traditional to Trailblazing - Asia Rising

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Theresa Blissing: Theresa Blissing: One of the first products they launched was actually a pet insurance,

Theresa Blissing: and in the podcast, we always made the joke, it's,

Theresa Blissing: you know, it was like a Trojan horse.

Theresa Blissing: So they started with something cute like pet insurance, and nobody really thought they

Theresa Blissing: would would be a threat once they sold them the pet insurance.

Theresa Blissing: Then they launched fire insurance.

Theresa Blissing: Homeowner insurance. Um, yeah.

Eduardo D'Alma: Eduardo D'Alma: How did the Chinese insurance and financial services provider Ping An managed to grow into

Eduardo D'Alma: the second and then fourth largest insurer globally,

Eduardo D'Alma: and only 35 years. How did the Trojan horse idea in disguise of single event insurances,

Eduardo D'Alma: like covering a single hike or a single ride to the airport,

Eduardo D'Alma: lead to acquiring customers that have never had an insurance before?

Eduardo D'Alma: And what does digital first and the insurance industry really mean?

Eduardo D'Alma: I'm Edoardo D'alma, partner at Wavestone, and today,

Eduardo D'Alma: in our first episode of love, Tech and the Future of Insurance,

Eduardo D'Alma: I will discuss these questions with Theresa Blessing.

Eduardo D'Alma: Theresa is a leading insurance expert, futurist,

Eduardo D'Alma: author, and speaker. She's lived in Asia for many years and is now based in New York City.

Eduardo D'Alma: She's also the author of the best selling book,

Eduardo D'Alma: The Future of Insurance Asia Rising, and therefore the ideal person to analyze what makes

Eduardo D'Alma: Asia insurtech firms so successful and what the rest of us can learn from these

Eduardo D'Alma: trailblazers. Theresa, it's amazing to have you.

Eduardo D'Alma: Thanks for joining, Eduardo.

Theresa Blissing: Theresa Blissing: It's my pleasure. I hear it's is it the first episode?

Eduardo D'Alma: Eduardo D'Alma: This is the very first episode of our podcast,

Eduardo D'Alma: and we're delighted that you are our first guest.

Theresa Blissing: Theresa Blissing: Well, it's a huge honor.

Theresa Blissing: Um, thank you so much.

Theresa Blissing: And, you know, I'm really excited for you guys.

Theresa Blissing: I remember when I started my first podcast, the Azure Insuretech podcast,

Theresa Blissing: back in May 2019. It's um, yeah, it's an exciting milestone and it has been an incredible

Theresa Blissing: journey, and I'm sure you guys will do well.

Theresa Blissing: I mean, I, you know, part of the team and part of the colleagues and,

Theresa Blissing: um, yeah.

Eduardo D'Alma: Eduardo D'Alma: Yeah, we're very excited for us.

Eduardo D'Alma: It's a possibility to to really not only express our voice,

Eduardo D'Alma: but also be joined by voices that can express their view on the future of insurance.

Eduardo D'Alma: And I think that's what matters for this fantastic industry to strive and to continue.

Theresa Blissing: Theresa Blissing: And I hear it's about the love of insurance.

Eduardo D'Alma: Eduardo D'Alma: That's absolutely true.

Eduardo D'Alma: It's about love, tech and the future of insurance.

Theresa Blissing: Theresa Blissing: You know, it's great. Like how did you came up with,

Theresa Blissing: you know, love as a title for an insurance podcast?

Eduardo D'Alma: Eduardo D'Alma: I've used love in order to basically tell all our people or get all our people excited

Eduardo D'Alma: about this industry. So what I say is, if you look into the insurance or at the insurance

Eduardo D'Alma: industry, what you see is that they're undervalued,

Eduardo D'Alma: right? So completely from a stock perspective.

Eduardo D'Alma: So for investors, it's still kind of a complicated animal and sometimes not easy to grasp.

Eduardo D'Alma: We also have the problem that the insurance employees themselves right.

Eduardo D'Alma: So sometimes struggle and um, don't really are super happy about the situation in which

Eduardo D'Alma: they are. So they don't share also too much love with them.

Eduardo D'Alma: And so if you take this all together, in the end of the day,

Eduardo D'Alma: we I say to them, so what is our purpose here?

Eduardo D'Alma: And if we really want to support transformation,

Eduardo D'Alma: we need to share our love with this industry in order to to make it better.

Theresa Blissing: Theresa Blissing: Now that's that's amazing.

Theresa Blissing: And I think it's right on point because as you said,

Theresa Blissing: the insurance industry is often undervalued, even though it's a massive part of any

Theresa Blissing: economy. It's what allows people to take risks and recover from setbacks.

Theresa Blissing: And also what you mentioned that a lot of people working in this industry don't value it.

Theresa Blissing: And I you know, I move a lot and every time I meet someone and tell them that I work in

Theresa Blissing: the insurance industry, the reactions are not always positive.

Theresa Blissing: And that is such a shame, right?

Theresa Blissing: Because it's such an important part of everyone's life,

Theresa Blissing: every economy. There's no great country without having a strong insurance network and

Theresa Blissing: protection. So yeah, I think that is very much needed to give the insurance industry the

Theresa Blissing: love it deserves.

Eduardo D'Alma: Eduardo D'Alma: Theresa, you have written a absolutely fantastic book.

Eduardo D'Alma: It's called The Future of Insurance Blazing New Paths in the Asian Insurance Market.

Eduardo D'Alma: And I have to say, I can only recommend that people read this because it's a fantastic

Eduardo D'Alma: food for thoughts. So what brought you to the idea of writing this book?

Theresa Blissing: Theresa Blissing: That's a that's a good question.

Theresa Blissing: So maybe for a little bit of context how how I got to this point,

Theresa Blissing: you know it, but maybe not all the listeners know my background story.

Theresa Blissing: So I come from the insurance industry.

Theresa Blissing: I now have 20 years of experience.

Theresa Blissing: I was born in Germany but spent a decade living in Asia Pacific.

Theresa Blissing: I first moved to Asia in 2009 when I was working for Generali,

Theresa Blissing: and I was working in the regional headquarter in Hong Kong,

Theresa Blissing: and I really fell in love with the region.

Theresa Blissing: And I also realized that there are very different opportunities and challenges compared to

Theresa Blissing: the German market or compared to other European or US markets,

Theresa Blissing: especially in Southeast Asia, with developing countries with a very young population with

Theresa Blissing: a very digital savvy population, but at the same time,

Theresa Blissing: very low financial literacy, very low insurance penetration.

Theresa Blissing: And I found this really fascinating.

Theresa Blissing: And in 2019 I was living in Bangkok, Thailand,

Theresa Blissing: and I did some research on the first wave of insuretech in the Asian market,

Theresa Blissing: and I realized there was very little information available on what was happening in this

Theresa Blissing: part of the world. So I actually started the Asia Insuretech podcast back then to shine

Theresa Blissing: some light on all the exciting stories, on all the new companies that are popping up,

Theresa Blissing: but also to give a platform for industry thought leaders to discuss the challenges they

Theresa Blissing: are facing and but also the opportunities they are seeing.

Theresa Blissing: This got me connected globally to other thought leaders in in that space.

Theresa Blissing: And this is how I met Bryan Falchuk.

Theresa Blissing: So Bryan Falchuk is from the US, and he has started the Future of Insurance series today.

Theresa Blissing: He has published three books that are all on the US markets.

Theresa Blissing: They were all bestsellers in the insurance category,

Theresa Blissing: and people reached out to him and said, like,

Theresa Blissing: hey, could you do something on a different market?

Theresa Blissing: We would be very interested on on what is happening in Asia.

Theresa Blissing: And so yeah, long story short, Brian reached out to me and said,

Theresa Blissing: like, hey, would you be interested to publish a book on the Asian insurance market?

Eduardo D'Alma: Eduardo D'Alma: For me, it was an exciting book because the moment I started reading it,

Eduardo D'Alma: I couldn't basically stop.

Eduardo D'Alma: I needed to see what is the next story.

Eduardo D'Alma: And all these use cases are so different from each other,

Eduardo D'Alma: but yet they also have some connections.

Eduardo D'Alma: And in today's session, I want to basically deep dive into these connections because I saw

Eduardo D'Alma: certain patterns that I want to discuss with you that I think are fascinating and also

Eduardo D'Alma: holds some key takeaways that could be interesting for anyone that is interested in this

Eduardo D'Alma: industry. So the book covers a number of initiatives in countries like China,

Eduardo D'Alma: Singapore, Malaysia, Indonesia and Japan.

Eduardo D'Alma: But they have in common is their focus on digital first distribution.

Eduardo D'Alma: They also focus on customer convenience and embedded insurance models.

Eduardo D'Alma: The idea is obviously to make insurance more accessible,

Eduardo D'Alma: flexible and scalable.

Eduardo D'Alma: But before we go into details, how would you define an insurtech?

Eduardo D'Alma: Is it an enabler or is it a disruptor?

Theresa Blissing: Theresa Blissing: Yeah, that's a that's a really good question.

Theresa Blissing: Right. And I believe well, many think Insuretech,

Theresa Blissing: which stands for insurance technology obviously many associated with a startup.

Theresa Blissing: Now if you have a company like Singlife, for example,

Theresa Blissing: which started in 2017, it was the first insurer in Singapore to get a license since the

Theresa Blissing: 70s. Right? So for decades, there has been no new insurance companies.

Theresa Blissing: Singlife was the first one.

Eduardo D'Alma: Eduardo D'Alma: Yeah. Singlife is a fascinating one, right?

Eduardo D'Alma: So it's a digital first insurer that was founded in Singapore,

Eduardo D'Alma: and they are really focused on a mobile first experience.

Eduardo D'Alma: They affirm I believe life, health and investment linked insurance plus financial wellness

Eduardo D'Alma: tools. What they really makes them stand out is how seamlessly they integrate insurance,

Eduardo D'Alma: savings and wealth management.

Eduardo D'Alma: So are they an insurance company or an insuretech?

Theresa Blissing: Theresa Blissing: The lines are very blurry today on what is an insurer tech and what is like a traditional

Theresa Blissing: insurance company. You also mentioned an enabler and disruptor.

Theresa Blissing: That's a differentiation I like to use.

Theresa Blissing: So Xing life I would consider a disruptor because they are going in looking to disrupt the

Theresa Blissing: market, taking clients from traditional incumbent insurers.

Theresa Blissing: But actually the majority of insurtechs are enablers.

Theresa Blissing: So these are companies that are providing a technology for one or more parts of the

Theresa Blissing: insurance value chain.

Theresa Blissing: Ai fraud detection, for example.

Theresa Blissing: They are not looking to disrupt the market.

Theresa Blissing: They are looking to enable insurance incumbents to digitize and to offer better products

Theresa Blissing: and services.

Eduardo D'Alma: Eduardo D'Alma: Okay, so we have set the frame for an insurtech.

Eduardo D'Alma: One thing that they all have in common, and I think you already highlighted them,

Eduardo D'Alma: is a technology first type of strategy with very sophisticated tech parts.

Eduardo D'Alma: And of course, the tech parts are always kind of the first thing that we look at

Eduardo D'Alma: predominantly in my job.

Eduardo D'Alma: But one thing that really stood out for me was that in all the cases that you had,

Eduardo D'Alma: there was always an extreme importance into culture,

Eduardo D'Alma: the culture to fail, the culture to innovate,

Eduardo D'Alma: culture. That does not stop when the incumbent says no.

Eduardo D'Alma: And I think that that is, of course, a fantastic segue.

Eduardo D'Alma: So can you talk a little bit about this cultural piece,

Eduardo D'Alma: because that was really fascinating.

Theresa Blissing: Theresa Blissing: Yeah. Um, culture is a tricky thing, right?

Theresa Blissing: I mean, everybody would agree.

Theresa Blissing: Also, insurance incumbents would agree that culture is important,

Theresa Blissing: and I believe every organization or every major organization is looking to develop a

Theresa Blissing: corporate culture that helps with their strategy.

Theresa Blissing: But it's not as easy than one might think.

Theresa Blissing: I think the insurance industry is especially struggling with building a culture that

Theresa Blissing: embraces change due to the nature of the business,

Theresa Blissing: right? We are all about managing risks.

Theresa Blissing: It's a very highly regulated industry.

Theresa Blissing: This is already attracting people who are maybe a bit more conservative,

Theresa Blissing: who are not risk takers.

Theresa Blissing: You also find still today careers where people have been working in the same company,

Theresa Blissing: maybe even in the same department for their entire life.

Theresa Blissing: Like when I worked for Generali, my boss, who later became the CEO of Dialogue,

Theresa Blissing: He started working at Generali as an actuary,

Theresa Blissing: later became the head of the actuarial department,

Theresa Blissing: then became, you know, he spent his entire career working for the same organization in the

Theresa Blissing: same country. Right. And I guess while this is great that these careers exists,

Theresa Blissing: they also make it difficult to embrace change,

Theresa Blissing: in my opinion. Right. And, you know, if you're just surrounded by people who you have

Theresa Blissing: known your entire career or large parts of your career and you all have the same beliefs,

Theresa Blissing: it is difficult to shake things up and to embrace the rapidly changing world we are living

Theresa Blissing: in. Right. And I think we can all agree that change is accelerating at a speed that nobody

Theresa Blissing: would have thought possible with the advent of of ChatGPT how quickly this has become such

Theresa Blissing: an integral part, like generative AI of any industry,

Theresa Blissing: of any person. And yeah, I think the the insurance industry at large is struggling a bit

Theresa Blissing: with keeping pace and embracing this change.

Theresa Blissing: But this is important, right.

Theresa Blissing: And it's and I think I have an example in my book where I'm saying it's not that I'm

Theresa Blissing: saying, okay, every year I, you know, look at technology changes etc.,

Theresa Blissing: but building change into the mindset of, for example,

Theresa Blissing: product development, right?

Theresa Blissing: A lot of the companies I spoke to when they design a product,

Theresa Blissing: they are aware that this is not going to be perfect when they launch it.

Theresa Blissing: Yeah. But they are bringing something to market and then they are listening very closely

Theresa Blissing: to what the market is responding.

Theresa Blissing: Right. Are people buying?

Theresa Blissing: Um, are they not. What is the feedback.

Theresa Blissing: And then they are tweaking it.

Theresa Blissing: They are sometimes tweaking it every day until they are happy with it.

Theresa Blissing: And I think this approach is still largely new to many insurance incumbents.

Theresa Blissing: And again, different reasons. There are also technical reasons that this might not be

Theresa Blissing: possible. There are also regulatory reasons when you need to approve tariffs.

Theresa Blissing: But it also is a mindset change to say like okay,

Theresa Blissing: we you know, we roll something out and we're just going to tweak it until we are happy

Theresa Blissing: with it because we understand it will have to change.

Theresa Blissing: We are not going to get it right the first time.

Eduardo D'Alma: Eduardo D'Alma: Theresa, you have like a fantastic Use Cases in the book and each of them are very,

Eduardo D'Alma: very different. But what is your favorite one out of the use cases that you described?

Theresa Blissing: Theresa Blissing: That's a that's a really difficult question, right?

Theresa Blissing: I mean, they are all very different.

Theresa Blissing: They are all most of them are from different countries.

Theresa Blissing: So I have examples from from India, from Malaysia,

Theresa Blissing: from Indonesia, from Hong Kong, from Japan.

Theresa Blissing: One I was really grateful for and which also is a bit the odd one out.

Theresa Blissing: I guess most of them are in shorts or like younger players.

Theresa Blissing: Tune protect has been around for I think 1010 years or so,

Theresa Blissing: but still relatively young players.

Theresa Blissing: Um, and then I have Ping An, which is the second largest insurer in the world,

Theresa Blissing: but it actually only started in the 80s.

Theresa Blissing: And I was very grateful that, um, Jonathan Larson,

Theresa Blissing: the chief innovation officer of, of Ping An, gave me an interview and allowed me to tell

Theresa Blissing: Ping An story and how, um, and this I would really call an insurance incumbent,

Theresa Blissing: even though compared to some of the European players,

Theresa Blissing: is is still really young.

Theresa Blissing: But in their young 40 year history, they have already gone through four different

Theresa Blissing: transformations. They were one of the first companies to move everything to the cloud,

Theresa Blissing: to then be able to be agile and nimble, etc.,

Theresa Blissing: even though they are the second largest insurer in the world.

Theresa Blissing: So I think, yeah, I'm really grateful I was able to tell to tell this story and add it to

Theresa Blissing: the book.

Eduardo D'Alma: Eduardo D'Alma: Now, if we're talking about scale.

Eduardo D'Alma: So how to scale Ping An is a whole different league.

Eduardo D'Alma: It's a financial giant.

Eduardo D'Alma: Um, it was founded, as you said, I think in 1988,

Eduardo D'Alma: in China. And I believe at the time of publication of your book,

Eduardo D'Alma: it was the second largest insurance group worldwide,

Eduardo D'Alma: pulling in $202 billion in revenue.

Eduardo D'Alma: Now it also integrates their life, health, property and wealth management insurances with

Eduardo D'Alma: AI. And I think by having a one stop app for everything,

Eduardo D'Alma: it got over 63 million users.

Eduardo D'Alma: But you were talking about the story behind all that.

Eduardo D'Alma: So what is it?

Theresa Blissing: Theresa Blissing: Um, so Ping An started, as I mentioned, in the 80s,

Theresa Blissing: as a insurance company.

Theresa Blissing: It spent, you know, the first decade basically getting the license,

Theresa Blissing: then the next decade looking at customer centricity,

Theresa Blissing: which is something that I guess most insurers are,

Theresa Blissing: are looking at for many, many years.

Theresa Blissing: But Ping An was really one of the first looking at a truly customer centric business

Theresa Blissing: model. Um, they then saw the potential of new technologies and went through this digital

Theresa Blissing: transformation, as I mentioned, moved everything into the cloud,

Theresa Blissing: where most of organizations the size of Ping An today have not managed that.

Theresa Blissing: Correct. And then they.

Eduardo D'Alma: Eduardo D'Alma: And they did it.

Theresa Blissing: Theresa Blissing: Already.

Eduardo D'Alma: Eduardo D'Alma: Three years ago. Right. So that was like 14, 15 years ago.

Eduardo D'Alma: Right.

Theresa Blissing: Theresa Blissing: So, yeah. Yeah.

Eduardo D'Alma: Eduardo D'Alma: Yeah.

Theresa Blissing: Theresa Blissing: Um, exactly. Um, so that, you know, in itself is really fascinating.

Theresa Blissing: And then they started their Ecosystem approach and Ping An started other companies,

Theresa Blissing: including Ping An Good Doctor, for example, which not necessarily is directly related to

Theresa Blissing: insurance, but they just saw an opportunity in the market.

Theresa Blissing: And also the way they approached this by building an entrepreneurial team.

Theresa Blissing: One of the mistakes I see with a lot of insurance companies who want to go into corporate

Theresa Blissing: ventures is that they stuff that new venture with legacy stuff.

Theresa Blissing: So with, you know, management of the insurance company,

Theresa Blissing: but it takes a very different skill set running an insurance company or running a startup.

Theresa Blissing: And I think this is one of the biggest issues why a lot of companies are failing.

Theresa Blissing: So Ping An treated that really, truly like a startup.

Theresa Blissing: They hired entrepreneurs.

Theresa Blissing: A lot of them were coming from tech companies,

Theresa Blissing: including Alibaba. Alibaba and Tencent.

Theresa Blissing: They raised money. They gave these entrepreneurs equity.

Theresa Blissing: And I think that approach and again the culture,

Theresa Blissing: the way they approach it really made that difference.

Theresa Blissing: And now I think it was 35.

Theresa Blissing: Over 35% of their new business is actually coming from these ecosystems that they have

Theresa Blissing: built, including Good Doctor, which is a health care platform.

Theresa Blissing: And through these platforms they actually acquire new clients.

Theresa Blissing: So again, also a bit of a theme of the book, I guess,

Theresa Blissing: alternative forms of distribution.

Theresa Blissing: So how do you approach customers outside of the traditional agency or broker services?

Eduardo D'Alma: Eduardo D'Alma: Yeah, and they've been able to basically use that model also to grow outside of China,

Eduardo D'Alma: also into the US. Right.

Eduardo D'Alma: So with some technology pieces that they provide in that respect,

Eduardo D'Alma: which I think is also So yeah, it's super interesting.

Theresa Blissing: Theresa Blissing: I think we can record an entire episode just talking about Ping An for sure.

Eduardo D'Alma: Eduardo D'Alma: For us, this is one of the major elements of the interior of the future that it needs to

Eduardo D'Alma: have a great level of adaptation, whether it's on the technology side or on the product

Eduardo D'Alma: side, because people want to live differently and also then be insured differently.

Eduardo D'Alma: And I think you highlighted already.

Eduardo D'Alma: Of course, one thing is the way that it's structured,

Eduardo D'Alma: saying that we promote the best of the best in the respective categories.

Eduardo D'Alma: So the Actuary e basically takes on more activities around the actuarial space and becomes

Eduardo D'Alma: then the risk manager and is kind of one of a kind within the company.

Eduardo D'Alma: And it's always kind of a like a lighthouse, right?

Eduardo D'Alma: So for everyone that works for him and these insurtechs operate with a completely

Eduardo D'Alma: different approach, which is potentially also including non-insurance experts that have a

Eduardo D'Alma: great understanding of how the market functions,

Eduardo D'Alma: how a technology functions in order to basically use that diversity in the team in order

Eduardo D'Alma: to come up with innovation.

Eduardo D'Alma: And one thing that strikes me, because it was also in every and all of the cases,

Eduardo D'Alma: more or less, is the ability to listen.

Eduardo D'Alma: Everybody was like, listen, listen, listen as um,

Eduardo D'Alma: so the analysis that went into the market, the information that was gathered,

Eduardo D'Alma: the possibility to extend the network beyond and also listen to the network providers and

Eduardo D'Alma: also the ability, by the way, from the incumbents to listen.

Eduardo D'Alma: Because I think that's the most fascinating part when somebody that is not prone to change

Eduardo D'Alma: suddenly changes. So, um, this portion around listening,

Eduardo D'Alma: I thought that this was also super interesting.

Eduardo D'Alma: Is that different from east to west because they're more used to listen to each other?

Eduardo D'Alma: Or would you say it's it's just a general topic?

Theresa Blissing: Theresa Blissing: Yeah, it's it it's a good question.

Theresa Blissing: I never I never thought about it actually.

Theresa Blissing: If there is a difference compared to like Europe and Asia.

Theresa Blissing: Well there's definitely, um, a it is more common to leave like product reviews if you look

Theresa Blissing: Southeast Asia especially and also China, um,

Theresa Blissing: they had a big boom with e-commerce.

Theresa Blissing: But at the same time there's a trust issue.

Theresa Blissing: So people are always before making a purchase,

Theresa Blissing: are looking at product reviews.

Theresa Blissing: I mean, you know, we do this in the West too, but I think it's a bit on steroids in places

Theresa Blissing: like China and Southeast Asia, um, where this plays a really big,

Theresa Blissing: major role. So I think from that perspective,

Theresa Blissing: maybe people are more likely to comment and, you know,

Theresa Blissing: use public forums to discuss their experience also with an insurance company.

Theresa Blissing: Right? Because that's the other issue.

Theresa Blissing: Um, people normally don't like talking about insurance,

Theresa Blissing: um, at least publicly, but it does happen.

Theresa Blissing: And sometimes you have to dig a little bit, right?

Theresa Blissing: Like one of the examples I have in the book is about jazz and their lifestyle.

Theresa Blissing: Hiking insurance. Right?

Eduardo D'Alma: Eduardo D'Alma: Yeah. Just a little background here.

Eduardo D'Alma: Jazz is like more of a new kid on the block in Hong Kong,

Eduardo D'Alma: right? I think it was founded only six years ago,

Eduardo D'Alma: and they have taken a really innovative approach by focusing on on demand micro-insurance

Eduardo D'Alma: solutions. And they use technologies like blockchain and GPS to offer event based

Eduardo D'Alma: coverage, for example, for gig workers or hiking trips,

Eduardo D'Alma: um, for travel. It is super flexible, which makes it so attractive for modern lifestyles.

Theresa Blissing: Theresa Blissing: They are also looking at forums and blogs for people who go hiking and skim that and,

Theresa Blissing: you know, essentially social listening, trying to understand,

Theresa Blissing: are they saying anything about their insurance,

Theresa Blissing: what they don't like, what they advise others to do,

Theresa Blissing: right? So I think the companies that I have worked with in Asia Are better at finding

Theresa Blissing: these signals in the big mess that is the internet and,

Theresa Blissing: you know, digital platforms.

Theresa Blissing: I think European players are lagging behind a little bit.

Theresa Blissing: It might be that people are sharing less, but also that there is not the motivation to

Theresa Blissing: really skim the the internet and, you know, look for these noises that relate to

Theresa Blissing: insurance. I think that's that's probably the case.

Eduardo D'Alma: Eduardo D'Alma: Yeah. So fascinating use cases.

Eduardo D'Alma: And they're all interrelated to a certain extent,

Eduardo D'Alma: even though they occur in very, very different markets.

Eduardo D'Alma: So one of the questions that is raised in those is,

Eduardo D'Alma: why is it so complicated for insurers to create a product that people want,

Eduardo D'Alma: and why is it so complicated to make it easy to understand and purchase predominantly if

Eduardo D'Alma: we move into digital distribution channels?

Eduardo D'Alma: So I thought that this was really, really powerful in the way that it's described,

Eduardo D'Alma: because we believe that to empower the insurer to offer highly tailored solutions is

Eduardo D'Alma: actually one of the keys in terms of adaptation and progress that will,

Eduardo D'Alma: of course, enable them to operate in different,

Eduardo D'Alma: let's say, markets and different age groups where they're currently not able to find

Eduardo D'Alma: customers.

Theresa Blissing: Theresa Blissing: Um, yeah. You know, again, the the listening part is,

Theresa Blissing: is really, really a tricky one, right?

Theresa Blissing: So if you wait for your customer to come and tell you their experience and be completely

Theresa Blissing: frank or even fill out like a feedback form, that's not always going to happen.

Theresa Blissing: Right. And I just mentioned the the example with the US in Hong Kong,

Theresa Blissing: um, how they are looking at hiking blocks.

Theresa Blissing: Another example um, also from Hong Kong actually one degree,

Theresa Blissing: which was the first insurer to get a virtual insurance license in Hong Kong.

Theresa Blissing: So they had a new Regulation to grant insurance licenses,

Theresa Blissing: and they were able to get one.

Theresa Blissing: But that meant they are only able to sell online.

Theresa Blissing: And we all know how difficult it can be to sell insurance online,

Theresa Blissing: right? Because it's more of a push product and a pull product.

Theresa Blissing: So they had to be really creative to understand what product are we launching?

Theresa Blissing: How is this looking like.

Theresa Blissing: And one of the first products they launched was actually a pet insurance.

Theresa Blissing: And um, in the podcast, we always made the joke.

Theresa Blissing: It's it was like a Trojan horse.

Theresa Blissing: Um, so they started with something cute, like pet insurance,

Theresa Blissing: and nobody really thought they would, uh, would be a threat.

Theresa Blissing: They worked with animal clinics, pet clinics,

Theresa Blissing: um, with foster homes, etc..

Theresa Blissing: Right. So going new ways to get these insights to,

Theresa Blissing: you know, you can't just say, oh, well, I listen, if customers come and,

Theresa Blissing: you know, tell me what they want, I listen.

Theresa Blissing: No, It's like going to places where you find the information and then listen.

Theresa Blissing: And that's what these two companies have done really well.

Theresa Blissing: Another example from From Malaysia and Tune Protect,

Theresa Blissing: where I also interviewed the CEO or former CEO now.

Theresa Blissing: And he also said like when I launch a new product,

Theresa Blissing: I have no idea what what will fly and what won't.

Theresa Blissing: They are also predominantly selling online and direct.

Eduardo D'Alma: Eduardo D'Alma: And in contrast to Yahoo's, Protect has been around since 2011.

Eduardo D'Alma: It has carved out a nice niche and travel lifestyle and personal accident insurance.

Eduardo D'Alma: What is interesting about them is that they've leaned heavily into embedded insurance,

Eduardo D'Alma: so their products are often built right into airline bookings and e-commerce platforms.

Eduardo D'Alma: That makes it incredibly easy for consumers to get coverage without even thinking about

Eduardo D'Alma: it, which is a big part of why embedded insurance is becoming such a powerful trend in the

Eduardo D'Alma: industry.

Theresa Blissing: Theresa Blissing: Once they launched, they pay really close attention through different channels,

Theresa Blissing: through social listening, to understand are people buying it?

Theresa Blissing: What are the questions?

Theresa Blissing: Also monitoring the behavior on their online platforms to see where people are getting

Theresa Blissing: stuck and then fixing these these parts.

Theresa Blissing: Right. So, um, listening don't necessarily mean you have to listen to when your customer

Theresa Blissing: comes, but you have to find the sources that tell you the information and then listen.

Eduardo D'Alma: Eduardo D'Alma: Yeah. And it takes, of course, a completely different approach in terms of,

Eduardo D'Alma: um, the data that you need to collect and the way that you structure it in order to really

Eduardo D'Alma: get to that essence. Right.

Eduardo D'Alma: So I remember for the pet insurance, it was identified that those that have a pet are also

Eduardo D'Alma: more affluent, right? So because they in a space like Hong Kong where everything is like

Eduardo D'Alma: super small, having the space to really have a pet with you requires you to have also a

Eduardo D'Alma: bigger apartment and therefore a good starting point.

Eduardo D'Alma: Because they would be potentially more prone to actually buy an insurance.

Eduardo D'Alma: So I thought that was really fascinating.

Theresa Blissing: Theresa Blissing: Yeah, exactly. And and that then, you know, coming back to the Trojan horse.

Theresa Blissing: Right. Once they sold them the pet insurance,

Theresa Blissing: then they launched fire insurance.

Theresa Blissing: Then they also sold like homeowner insurance.

Theresa Blissing: Exactly.

Eduardo D'Alma: Eduardo D'Alma: Yeah, exactly. And also to listen, I think has a different dimension as well,

Eduardo D'Alma: because and I would really love to focus on that because I think that's something that is

Eduardo D'Alma: very reflective of the market in Asia, potentially,

Eduardo D'Alma: except of course, of Japan, where we have a bit of a different situation.

Eduardo D'Alma: But there are a lot of young customers, right?

Eduardo D'Alma: So and what I would love to understand is how are they different.

Eduardo D'Alma: What do they need. Right.

Eduardo D'Alma: So because we always make assumptions that everything has to be adaptable,

Eduardo D'Alma: lifestyles are different and they look at different things.

Eduardo D'Alma: But I mean there's the the essence for for insurance is either you own something,

Eduardo D'Alma: an asset that you want to protect or you are afraid of something that of course you want

Eduardo D'Alma: to prevent and therefore you use that protection.

Eduardo D'Alma: How does that differ in the younger generation?

Eduardo D'Alma: That is, of course, available in millions.

Eduardo D'Alma: Right. So in the Asian market.

Theresa Blissing: Theresa Blissing: Yeah. Um, a good point.

Theresa Blissing: I like to give the example of, of Indonesia, um,

Theresa Blissing: which has a population where over 50% is below the age of 30.

Theresa Blissing: So these are all digital natives.

Theresa Blissing: They have all grown up with their phones using the internet,

Theresa Blissing: etc.. Um, mentioning using the internet, if I ask you,

Theresa Blissing: how do you first access the internet?

Theresa Blissing: Your answer is probably, you know, like a desktop computer.

Theresa Blissing: Same for me. But this is a generation.

Theresa Blissing: They first access the internet through a mobile phone,

Theresa Blissing: and that changes a lot in the way they think about the internet,

Theresa Blissing: the way they they think about, you know, engagements,

Theresa Blissing: etc.. And I would argue it's a similar situation for Gen Z in Europe and the US.

Theresa Blissing: And that's why I always say, look at what Asia has done,

Theresa Blissing: because even countries like Indonesia, global South country is more digitized than than

Theresa Blissing: Germany for sure. And I would also argue than the US and many other countries because they

Theresa Blissing: have a um, again, like young generation also means,

Theresa Blissing: um, more likely to embrace change, more likely to embrace technology.

Theresa Blissing: Um, digital platforms are booming there.

Theresa Blissing: They had 4 or 5 Unicorns building digital platforms.

Theresa Blissing: So it's a very tech savvy population that does everything online.

Theresa Blissing: At the same time, you find a population with very low financial literacy,

Theresa Blissing: right? Um, Indonesia has one of the lowest insurance penetration rates worldwide.

Theresa Blissing: And it's also, I think, one of the only countries where motor insurance is not mandatory.

Theresa Blissing: So even like a third party liability is not mandatory.

Theresa Blissing: And I guess that's how a lot of young people learn first about insurance,

Theresa Blissing: right? They are buying a car and that's when they need to get insurance.

Theresa Blissing: Now that's not the case in Indonesia.

Theresa Blissing: And I would argue also in, you know, many Western countries,

Theresa Blissing: a lot of young people living in cities don't necessarily buy a car anymore.

Theresa Blissing: Right? So if you don't have that concept of getting introduced to insurance and,

Theresa Blissing: you know, have a population that is very tech savvy but probably won't understand the

Theresa Blissing: concept of an insurance agent coming to your home and sitting on your sofa.

Theresa Blissing: I think a lot of people would find this really weird.

Theresa Blissing: You need to come up with new ways to bring, you know,

Theresa Blissing: this young generation in contact with insurance and the way many companies operating in

Theresa Blissing: these markets, like Indonesia, the way they are doing is they look at lifestyle insurance

Theresa Blissing: products, small ticket insurance products, which means,

Theresa Blissing: you know, small premium just for one event.

Theresa Blissing: Um, an example I have in the book is from Quoala,

Theresa Blissing: who has partnered with some of the ride hailing companies there.

Theresa Blissing: Um, so Gojek and Grab, which is like Uber or Lyft and,

Theresa Blissing: um, they offer a protection if you get stuck in traffic on the way to the airport.

Eduardo D'Alma: Eduardo D'Alma: Yeah. And then you pay.

Eduardo D'Alma: They pay your flight. Right. So if you miss it. Exactly. Which I thought is fascinating.

Theresa Blissing: Theresa Blissing: Yes. Um, so, you know, a lot of people are probably not really worried.

Theresa Blissing: Getting into a car, getting into an accident.

Theresa Blissing: That's not something young people are thinking about.

Theresa Blissing: But if they are on the way to the airport for their first flight,

Theresa Blissing: maybe in their life, they bought a ticket, which was probably expensive for them to go

Theresa Blissing: abroad. They're really excited.

Theresa Blissing: In cities like Jakarta, traffic is a huge, huge issue.

Theresa Blissing: When it starts raining, everything stops, so that is something they are worried about.

Theresa Blissing: So the way that Quoala has done that is offering within the ride hailing app that they can

Theresa Blissing: opt in for, you know, a very small premium because it's just a one time event,

Theresa Blissing: right? Yeah. To opt in for this coverage and then get paid for a new flight in case they

Theresa Blissing: get stuck in traffic. And, um, Harshit, the founder of Quoala,

Theresa Blissing: he explained it like, you know, it's like when you go to a ice cream shop and it's the

Theresa Blissing: first time you, you have ice cream and you don't know which flavor you like,

Theresa Blissing: and you want to try a scoop like just a spoon before you order a scoop.

Theresa Blissing: And I think this is the right way to introduce younger generations to the concept of

Theresa Blissing: insurance. Like something that is educational,

Theresa Blissing: something that they Realize it's important to them and then learn the benefits and how.

Theresa Blissing: She actually told me they want people to claim,

Theresa Blissing: because when they claim, they learn and they say like,

Theresa Blissing: oh, okay, now I get it.

Theresa Blissing: If something, you know, unforeseen happens, that is not my fault.

Theresa Blissing: I can get coverage for that.

Eduardo D'Alma: Eduardo D'Alma: That's the element of building trust, right? So which is so relevant for this market

Eduardo D'Alma: because once you have trust predominantly if you're selling through these digital

Eduardo D'Alma: channels, then it will be so much easier to also for you to sell other products,

Eduardo D'Alma: which I thought was interesting because normally you would say,

Eduardo D'Alma: oh, let's try to avoid as many claims as possible.

Eduardo D'Alma: But even with these smaller insurances, and by combining the products with other things,

Eduardo D'Alma: they're still able to produce a profitable growth,

Eduardo D'Alma: which I thought was interesting as well, and create the trust that is necessary for that

Eduardo D'Alma: generation to get engaged in insurance.

Theresa Blissing: Theresa Blissing: So no. Absolutely.

Eduardo D'Alma: Eduardo D'Alma: Yeah. Absolutely. Brilliant.

Eduardo D'Alma: So for me, that was that was super.

Eduardo D'Alma: Um, and all the tech parts, of course, to a certain extent,

Eduardo D'Alma: sometimes cover I. And we know AI is a very, let's say,

Eduardo D'Alma: topic which is very related to saving costs.

Eduardo D'Alma: But in your examples, I think it also covers completely different topics.

Eduardo D'Alma: So can you give us an example out of those use cases where you see the use of AI in a

Eduardo D'Alma: different way than just to basically ensure that the products are or that everything is

Eduardo D'Alma: streamlined in terms of the the operational elements.

Theresa Blissing: Theresa Blissing: Well, you know, the thing with, with AI is, um,

Theresa Blissing: you can really use it, um, you know, along the insurance value chain.

Theresa Blissing: I think that's one of the arguments I've been making for years now.

Theresa Blissing: The insurance industry was technically the industry who should have invented the whole

Theresa Blissing: data analytics and AI because the whole business model is based on numbers.

Theresa Blissing: It's based on math. Right.

Theresa Blissing: But, um, you know, Unfortunately, the insurance industry is lagging more behind than,

Theresa Blissing: you know, leading in this field.

Theresa Blissing: Yeah, you have a huge potential to use AI in every area.

Theresa Blissing: And I think one of the examples I have, which is actually from Japan,

Theresa Blissing: a market that is fairly similar to Germany with high financial literacy,

Theresa Blissing: etc., and a company called Habito.

Theresa Blissing: They have started an app and it's it looks at first sight like a banking app.

Theresa Blissing: Um, because you have a debit card, um, where you can,

Theresa Blissing: you know, make payments. They also have a very high interest rate,

Theresa Blissing: market leading interest rate, um, which they are actually financing through acquisition

Theresa Blissing: costs to then create a platform for people to buy insurance.

Theresa Blissing: And but in a first step to provide a financial advisor and they are connected to a real

Theresa Blissing: person. But there is also a lot that is AI driven.

Theresa Blissing: Like quick responses, chatbot like features, but then also for the financial advisors

Theresa Blissing: using AI for them to better understand what is the perfect product for this client,

Theresa Blissing: what would they worry about?

Theresa Blissing: What are good cross-sell upsell opportunities and also help them to analyze a conversation

Theresa Blissing: after they had maybe a call with their with their client.

Theresa Blissing: So clients of of the habitual app, they can use the app to schedule video calls with their

Theresa Blissing: financial advisors. But then there is an AI in the background that helps the advisor then

Theresa Blissing: to analyze about the conversation they just had and give suggestions on next steps,

Theresa Blissing: etc.. And, you know, I think that's it's a very powerful way to allow agents,

Theresa Blissing: financial advisors to focus on what they can do best is building relationships with

Theresa Blissing: clients and remove a lot of that like admin stuff,

Theresa Blissing: taking notes, etc.. Yeah.

Eduardo D'Alma: Eduardo D'Alma: Yeah. Great. Aboutyou.

Eduardo D'Alma: I think that was also a very good example because,

Eduardo D'Alma: um, it clearly showed that when regulations drop,

Eduardo D'Alma: there's a possibility to create innovation because I think it was started through the

Eduardo D'Alma: opportunity to gain a new license if you have a combined product.

Eduardo D'Alma: And so it was the first time that the regulation was also kind of altered in many,

Eduardo D'Alma: many years in Japan, if I remember correctly,

Eduardo D'Alma: from reading the book and I thought that this was,

Eduardo D'Alma: um, interesting. So as as we can see, we've seen in the examples in your book,

Eduardo D'Alma: different drivers, whether it's been Covid, whether it's been a regulation that has been

Eduardo D'Alma: dropped or the possibility to really get a new license,

Eduardo D'Alma: like with Singlife, and then basically get a completely different twist on things.

Eduardo D'Alma: It is so plentiful, right?

Eduardo D'Alma: So the reasons why this happens.

Eduardo D'Alma: But they all have some things in common like listening the,

Eduardo D'Alma: the culture element. Um, top of the art tech,

Eduardo D'Alma: of course, that is. And above all, um, a clear focus on what customer's needs.

Eduardo D'Alma: Right? So it's all around the customer, which is also something that we share and that and

Eduardo D'Alma: that respect. And therefore I thought it was really,

Eduardo D'Alma: really fascinating. Teresa, you dedicated this book to your parents for planting your

Eduardo D'Alma: curiosity. So you've done so many things as a professional.

Eduardo D'Alma: You've written this book. You've you've teached at universities.

Eduardo D'Alma: What is your next chapter, um, in your life?

Theresa Blissing: Theresa Blissing: Yeah. Good question. I actually, um, just got admitted to a PhD program from the

Theresa Blissing: Queensland University of Technology because, yeah,

Theresa Blissing: I do have a thing for academia.

Theresa Blissing: I have taught at universities.

Theresa Blissing: Um, I'm a big fan of academic research, especially in times like this,

Theresa Blissing: where sometimes it's hard to find information you can actually trust.

Theresa Blissing: And I'm going to look at the.

Theresa Blissing: So it's not not necessarily directly insurance related,

Theresa Blissing: but it's about guiding principles for the digital world.

Theresa Blissing: You might be familiar with the UN Sustainable Development Goals.

Theresa Blissing: Yes. Um, which have been, um, developed by the United Nations and agreed by the General

Theresa Blissing: Assembly. Um, but they are mostly for the physical world.

Theresa Blissing: So what I'm working on is basically sustainable development goals for the digital world.

Theresa Blissing: I call them digital development goals to find these guiding principles on how the digital

Theresa Blissing: world should look like.

Eduardo D'Alma: Eduardo D'Alma: Yeah, fascinating. So a good reason.

Eduardo D'Alma: So to wait for, um, for that result and then invite you back to hear more about these

Eduardo D'Alma: things, I would like to thank you for sharing your story and insights and for everyone

Eduardo D'Alma: that is listening. Please ensure that you get the book.

Eduardo D'Alma: So thanks a lot for joining and sharing that story.

Theresa Blissing: Theresa Blissing: Well, thank you so much for having me. It's such an honor to be on your,

Theresa Blissing: you know, first episode.

Theresa Blissing: Thank you so much.

Speaker3: Speaker3: Thank you.

Eduardo D'Alma: Eduardo D'Alma: So that was our first episode of love Tech and the Future of Insurance.

Eduardo D'Alma: For me, there are three key takeaways that I believe might be useful for insurers all over

Eduardo D'Alma: the world. One is the digital, always fast approach,

Eduardo D'Alma: mostly via smartphone apps.

Eduardo D'Alma: The second is the truly customer centric approach.

Eduardo D'Alma: Many of the insurtechs in Asia take.

Eduardo D'Alma: They will go out research the special interest platforms of potential customers,

Eduardo D'Alma: such as hiking or travel sites to find out what customers really need and want.

Eduardo D'Alma: And they will listen. Listen and listen.

Eduardo D'Alma: And the third and potentially the most important one is the cultural aspect.

Eduardo D'Alma: That means that new products, approaches and ideas require new people and new thinking

Eduardo D'Alma: people who are likely tech and smartphone savvy people who may be new to the industry and

Eduardo D'Alma: people who are Gen Zers.

Eduardo D'Alma: I hope you have enjoyed the conversation with Theresa Blessing as much as I did,

Eduardo D'Alma: and find your own takeaways from it.

Eduardo D'Alma: Please join us again for the next episode.

Eduardo D'Alma: Follow us and most importantly, recommend us to your friends and colleagues and like us,

Eduardo D'Alma: wherever you are listening to Love Tech and the Future of Insurance.

Eduardo D'Alma: And let's continue our love story with tech and our industry.

Eduardo D'Alma: I'm Eduardo Dalmau, and thanks for listening.