Digital Transformation in Practice: Rebuilding Art Insurance

00:00:22: Welcome to a new episode of Love, Tech and the Future Of Insurance.

00:00:27: Most insurers say they're going through digital transformation.

00:00:31: Very few can tell you exactly what that means in practice What was torn down?

00:00:37: What was built?

00:00:38: What it costed And what did enabled.

00:00:41: My guest today is one of those rare leaders who can has spent six years fundamentally reinventing how art insurance is designed, sold and managed at Arte Generale.

00:00:59: Today we're going to find out how he did it where he stands now And Where It Goes Next.

00:01:06: Dear Jean Welcome to our podcast.

00:01:08: I welcome Eduardo.

00:01:09: good evening.

00:01:10: Before we get into the transformation itself Tell us about your journey through leading ARTE Generale What brought you to this particular niche?

00:01:23: And of course, what made your fall in love with his industry.

00:01:28: I think I am an AXA baby... In the sense that he was a third generation person hired by AXa working contract before it had other names companies but that's just the case and at the time AXAs were led And those guys were quite amazing.

00:01:51: I learned so much out of them from insurance, but also from leadership and technology.

00:01:59: It was a super innovative company in many respects.

00:02:02: So i have just grown with the company for several years Because it is extremely entrepreneurial ,I myself was quite eager to learn and travel.

00:02:14: I've done many, many things.

00:02:16: And not only insurance but also in asset management and working in several countries...I feel myself extremely lucky to have been meeting all those people along the time and learning from them so much.

00:02:29: at some point i had the opportunity of mixing my passion-my personal passion for art.

00:02:37: My father was an art dealer and a fair organizer In the seventies and eighties So I grew up amongst objects and art pieces, my wife is an art historian as well.

00:02:49: And so I had the possibility of mixing this side with my professional life in joining AXA Art where i met extraordinary colleagues from the origin of the art insurance industry because it was born here in London thanks to Robert Iscox and in Germany with a company called Nordstern, which was extremely run by passionate people.

00:03:16: And we had the idea of mixing art historian and insurance people to tackle the issue of insuring art.

00:03:24: So when I discovered this specialty Well, I mean my passion was definitely there.

00:03:30: Since then i have tried to really learning from the past experience, learning from incredible professionals how we can make this specialty more potent or offer better services.

00:03:45: We can serve also the evolution of risk profile which is a reality that all facing with and it has been keeping me very busy during last six years.

00:03:56: So you started ensuring objects of desire.

00:03:59: I think it would be good for their listeners to put a little bit context around what art generally actually does and What kind of risk do cover?

00:04:09: Art in itself is if You take an average insurance company, absolutely the thing that you don't want to insure.

00:04:18: It's sometimes very fragile ,it has extremely high psychological value.

00:04:26: it can be extremely expensive, its individual.

00:04:29: so you cannot rebuy them.

00:04:31: It's a single piece very often and then generally accumulates in certain places.

00:04:38: there is a high tendency to always look at the same place in world whether on private side or from museum art galleries professional of domain.

00:04:50: So do have also concentration issue.

00:04:52: So if you take all those components together, this is a real challenge because as the traditional insurer.

00:04:58: You would always prefer I would say replicable risk of average values with good dispersion.

00:05:06: so exactly the opposite in fact.

00:05:08: my predecessors which were extremely I would save technicians Well, develop the technique in order to make art insurable and to make sure that clients who own heart have a real deep passion for their possession receive this service they deserve not only from an underwriting standpoint but also at critical moment of claims because sometimes claims happen.

00:05:34: And then you need be there... Not on terms capacity or payment as it comes naturally with cover But principally in terms of services, very often the client would always prefer restoration off the object and trying to get it back one way or another than a simple check.

00:05:54: Sometimes sadly you cannot do that because this thing is totally lost which happens also sometimes.

00:06:00: but most of time if piece can be recovered properly restored It will be preference for everyone.

00:06:10: Good underwriting practice is that you have sometimes fifty to a hundred years of experience in ensuring A specific risk like alive.

00:06:19: You have mortality tables, you have analysis and data That will help you And your models can calculate the risks and actually can also extrapolate how this risk will develop.

00:06:31: Now we have piece-of art which is unique potentially not even comparable to something else.

00:06:36: It has a psychological value and the value that is predominantly defined by market of specialists, and of course buyers because if there's demand you can have piece-of-art which is one hundred thousand today.

00:06:49: it could be twenty five million tomorrow.

00:06:51: The price is limitless!

00:06:52: And therefore I wonder how do actually basically get those numbers right.

00:06:57: And how do you work with models?

00:06:59: Because it's always individual models that very likely don't even have something in common, because I'm thinking now about drawings but there are also sculptures and different types of years where they can be different materials or all these conditions.

00:07:14: so this is such a vast field!

00:07:17: It's a vast fields for the necessity to always having the right specialist porcelain from Vincent or Sevre, you know.

00:07:27: And how you handle them has nothing to do with a calder status of a diamond which is highly valuable very small and extremely hard.

00:07:38: I think there are risks Which are i would say standard risk?

00:07:43: All the nut cut issues that could affect those pieces benefit the data gathered by all kinds of climate specialists, earthquake specialist.

00:07:54: We are absolutely victim to same risks than others.

00:07:59: The fact that we can localize very well objects not only in terms of geolocalization but also in terms altitude and everything helps a lot.

00:08:09: It's nothing like ensuring collection on ground floor or second floor.

00:08:15: Those things are extremely important.

00:08:18: I would say that within the existing risk models applied to certain categories of risks, The fact we can be very specific because we're dealing with large value covers We take time to specify altitude and longitude So it helps properly measure exposure.

00:08:44: There are other elements which are more difficult.

00:08:46: The breaking of an object, which is purely accidental.

00:08:50: what's the frequency?

00:08:51: What impact does it have on the durability and material used ?

00:08:56: This is out of I would say claim experience that very often you reconciled at Same with theft things people first think.

00:09:06: in terms of art, it's about theft.

00:09:08: In fact when you look at your claims classification, theft comes normally one last of the risks very often because places we are insuring and collection we're ensuring is well protected therefore not so common Of course I would say in a manner quite blatant like the Louvre or other museum attacks.

00:09:34: All of a sudden, people realize that theft can happen for art.

00:09:39: But in reality it's not so frequent because an art piece is in fact the difficult pieces of items to deal with which isn't the case for gold or precious metals or jewelry... ...which naturally can be traded on an easier way under black market.

00:09:56: but then I would say and i will quote certainly one famous health insurance, Robert Discox.

00:10:03: The main risk you have to deal with is the counterparty risk?

00:10:06: Who's your insurer?

00:10:08: who are giving a cover of two hundred fifty three hundred million?

00:10:14: I mean whose this person?

00:10:16: what is his risk profile?

00:10:18: how much does he really love his collection?

00:10:20: easy first collector Or is it someone gathering assets?

00:10:25: I think that's very different.

00:10:27: When you are a collector, You have really intimacy with the piece of art It somehow... The pieces your soul put together in building.

00:10:37: And so this thing for me is most important and thats why its not an easy job or young underwriter.

00:10:45: A young writer will focus on the object itself, its value and all technicalities around it's protection.

00:10:52: but very often what is most important are personal factors.

00:10:57: Who you insuring?

00:10:59: With text time there're people who don't want to insure Because you don't think they are matching your style of insurance, and there others.

00:11:07: Of course you would love insuring because They're so passionate that the protection to care they put through their art is such That You know that it will do all Their best To make sure that nothing bad happens.

00:11:20: So fascinating because It's trusting in The human being right or building a level of trust with them.

00:11:28: It's a very rational exercise in which you have many, I would say quantitative factors.

00:11:35: And then ultimately there is big judgment call that you need to have and sometimes you can sum it up like well do i want to have a claim with this guy?

00:11:44: Then if you are convinced that you don't think that you'd like to handle the claims for these persons because you dont' think its could be good story neither nor for the institution you represent, just say okay maybe it's not worse than case.

00:11:59: So let's stay there!

00:12:01: Let's keep it there.

00:12:02: You know this is our sole privilege as property casualty insurer.

00:12:07: we may say no to a risk and I would even say its absolute duty when were are not sure that can handle a risk It better be said No never regretted.

00:12:21: It's

00:12:23: my decision.

00:12:23: And then it's up to me from a, I would say management standpoint... ...to make sure that i manage my commercial objectives or my economics in such a way that.. ..I don't see myself forced to take risks and could not sustain.

00:12:38: So we have an object which is very rare.

00:12:41: We have tremendous variety ,we have to involve many experts .We need to find out whether actually what it claims to be because It could be also something else.

00:12:53: Yes,

00:12:54: definitely.

00:12:55: when we started out a generally six seven years ago I was adamant that i wanted to hire first season underwriters people and with always mixed knowledge art insurance because you have to deal with those questions all the time And You need To make sure That you Have The right Network of Expert to judge Those Things All the Time.

00:13:21: It's impossible for an art expert to cover all epochs and styles, artists.

00:13:27: What matters is that you have the right network of specialists who would address a question when things are coming or don't answer yourself?

00:13:36: That gives us service which I think is robust enough in providing also the right degree of flexibility because people need to receive documents told, especially if the piece is wrong you know.

00:13:53: You need to be sure when you detect a fake that you have all the good elements.

00:13:58: we are also using new technology for that.

00:14:01: We start up almost at the same time than a startup which was built-up in Switzerland by a lady called Karina Popovici Called Art Recognition and they're using AI In order to map paintings.

00:14:18: principally and using this mapping against existing painting from the same artist, I tried to make it simple.

00:14:25: And comparing...and then adding up to the proof you need in order say whether its a fake or good paintings.

00:14:33: We propose service for our clients on top of everything else In order them be sure they can access all technology available To clear any doubts that could have.

00:14:44: Yeah, and I'm not surprised that this makes a lot of sense with AI because if you take into account what a large language model does.

00:14:51: it's vectoring kind of the probability.

00:14:53: And with paintings in particular every dot is color and has specific position.

00:14:59: based on these things You definitely can recognize patterns or deviations which give them an indication

00:15:06: gives an indication, and even if you know that especially for old masters they were working with workshops.

00:15:13: They were employing some of them many people nevertheless Some pieces where generally done by the master.

00:15:22: through those part of the paintings.

00:15:24: normally You are able to do very interesting discovery.

00:15:27: when she started it was very controversial.

00:15:30: She had many opponents And then I think She developed a very subtle approach saying that it's one tool amongst the other.

00:15:38: You are using UV, you're using chemical analysis of the teens... ...you never have an answer from one angle!

00:15:46: It is multifactorial.

00:15:48: so let us add up this factor to rest and it will contribute to a better analysis at the end.

00:15:54: And I think this is something where I strongly believe in technology, it's always influx and what matters is to provide the last evolution when you can and complement existing technology.

00:16:07: The advantage of those new techs that normally they are quite non-invasive and nonexpensive to deploy so which makes the experience even nicer.

00:16:17: Now that

00:16:20: we are talking about technology, it's a good segue into the question.

00:16:24: The listener should be aware you cannot go in to software development firm and just pick something off-the shelf The risk administration part or risk evaluation, all the administration of these individual kind of contracts.

00:16:41: Maybe the finance part because in the end you ensure a premium and have to build some reserves there.

00:16:47: we have more similarity with other parts this business but for rest it looks very specific not something that would find off-the-shelf.

00:16:57: I have always been traumatized in my past experiences by those kind of mega-projects where you focus on one absolute weapon, we put all your means there and end up with the monster.

00:17:08: And nothing delivers on time... There are huge frustrations like that.

00:17:13: In our case.

00:17:15: We were a dedicated business unit With a dedicated P&L with startup budgets So we had to make it work economically.

00:17:25: a five-year deadline to do that.

00:17:28: So I could not afford to invest in unproven technology because one also element you need to have in mind is both the distributors, broker or agents dealing with very high end clients.

00:17:41: we have and our client are extremely quality conscious so no way can issue crappy policies long delay, the item and my competitors are extremely good.

00:17:58: So what we've done?

00:18:03: in fact with a kind of layered approach because we knew that one system could not fit all.

00:18:15: we would handle the risk on behalf of the insurance company professionally.

00:18:19: Because with a two hundred fifty million capacity for single-risk, you need to be extremely accurate in terms of locations... In terms of altitude and all those things.

00:18:29: You have super good data because your first and foremost dealing with re-insurance companies helping you build up the PNL either from a faculty standpoint or from a treaty standpoint.

00:18:44: You need to work hands in hand, so we decided to choose the system... The company is called Sebesh Fish and it's called Rescribe which was built for Swiss Three here in London And so with the requirement of a reinsurance company It was build for MGA.

00:19:03: working with Swiss Three.

00:19:05: We knew that the system was able to deal well with data exchange, and because we needed also to feed back-end systems of our mother company in all countries operating.

00:19:19: Plus, making sure that we would have the right report for our insurer.

00:19:24: We needed a system which was very much geared towards those requirements and it has proved to be extremely good because the system is extremely evolutive so we can parametrize almost everything And so we have a kind of partnership when we need fundamental transformation.

00:19:42: We have a schedule for that with them, but for the rest... ...we do our product development and there are lots things to be done efficiently which means that time-to-market is very short once you define the framework in your products.

00:19:54: We also have the wonderful ability to be multilingual….

00:19:58: …and roll out countries quickly at minimum marginal price.

00:20:04: So if we want something set up within one country it takes us maximum two months and at a marginal cost.

00:20:11: It's really a tool which enables us to grow

00:20:15: fast

00:20:16: while respecting the data quality issue we need absolutely to respect, that is the nucleus!

00:20:23: And then after that, DID has been working with new tech start-ups.

00:20:30: all the services we would need on top to really cater for art dimensions.

00:20:37: The necessity of itemizing a list, issuing multiple certificates following art pieces in their journey when they travel, risk analyzes sites where they are stored or on display and so on, all those modules we worked with startups.

00:21:01: Very entrepreneurial people using new technology very much web-based which gives us the ability to test quickly And change.

00:21:10: tack if you see that what are doing is not delivering so much value It's very much this.

00:21:16: The first part is a kind of foundational part, the second part it's an experimental part in which you move on into a new service.

00:21:24: You develop to try and adjust its constant flux.

00:21:30: but for that we need find ways working with start-upers maybe because we are also internal startup It's more natural.

00:21:39: We are very much using what people would call like development technique, pizza type of things.

00:21:45: I mean we work very much on the project base ad-hoc project based all the time and we have been able to do that also because off the people who had been hired And so you know they're fifties having knowledge in industry then a new young generation guys in their early twenties mid-twenties absolutely art passionate but also totally new technology focused, plus the start-upers to develop new things very quickly.

00:22:16: But you need to create conditions for this too happen.

00:22:19: it's a way to tackle problems in fact and these does not come spontaneously.

00:22:23: It requires culture And a culture, you don't decree it.

00:22:28: You don't put slogans on the wall and sing culture every morning at breakfast doesn't work like that.

00:22:35: It's by constantly experiencing new difficulties and finding new ways of solving problems By very specific association with different competencies And it's a constant evolution.

00:22:50: But we were built like that, because we had to survive COVID initially Because during the two years of COVID We have just started The company and all over sudden Nothing!

00:22:59: We could not access the clients... ...we couldn't access the brokers.. We had to survival between ourselves Developing the products developing services.

00:23:09: I think It has ingrained in us A kind of DNA In which using technology And working in a very flat way is definitely our style.

00:23:19: Let me try to recap, you took a system which was existing and technically supporting your ecosystem of distribution so it would cover the MGA part where somebody on behalf go out there and basically evaluate and sign risk.

00:23:37: It had already the connection to the reinsurance part, with all of reporting requirements that are necessary.

00:23:43: To get a right level coverage as well because it's a shared type risk approach and created basis for system which would manage majority of risks.

00:23:56: in addition you basically went for specific items, and this item was very parametric.

00:24:03: You could use it for a variety of different types of products in risk.

00:24:08: but then in addition to that you said okay we need to have specific evaluations and created not only a basis to collaborate with the culture that you had, agility project-based very entrepreneurial which was accelerated apparently by COVID.

00:24:29: But you also had the technology foundation in order to connect it, right?

00:24:33: Because sometimes it's like two very different things when you are in a legacy world and then you try to connect modern technologies.

00:24:41: That space is of reinsurance where you have similar to yourself—very low volume.

00:24:46: It's something that we need to look into from a technology perspective.

00:24:50: so how did this integration piece get done with a technological perspective?

00:24:55: Rescribe the system we are using from CyberFish is a fifth-generation system.

00:25:00: It's cloud based, it's extremely easy.

00:25:04: so whenever we have to integrate services I mean APIs all our digital service developments on the clouds API and we can share them with the brokers.

00:25:15: We can put them in any kind of website in front of the public.

00:25:18: And this is how

00:25:20: you use the opportunity for being entrepreneurial instead of going for the safe space, you went into something which was very open.

00:25:28: that gave you the opportunity to have all these connections because you were so aware of your requirements and don't need to rely on anything.

00:25:37: And be aware of speed necessity!

00:25:40: I am fighting against time since i started Because we needed to break even.

00:25:47: We had a firm deadline from our group created the discipline in fact, in terms of project management and created.

00:25:57: The motivation to get things done in time.

00:26:02: there was always a kind of priority towards making it live, testing with the brokers.

00:26:11: Learning before moving to the next phase and not trying to get things perfect for too long because as long you have not met your market then the market has said yes I like it we can work on that.

00:26:24: You don't know if this is going to work.

00:26:25: The timely discipline of growth which forces us be fast in our markets Plus the fact that if you don't experience your solution with distributors and with final clients, You have no idea whether it's something.

00:26:38: And sometimes things have worked well... ...and some times others are not working.

00:26:42: but this is a rule of the game.

00:26:44: If you do try then you won't know Yeah

00:26:46: But the market will tell you I love the passion about your customers because you basically put everything to the test through their eyes.

00:26:53: Through their eyes, and sometimes... You think that they are going to love it?

00:26:57: And then… They don't pick it up because not organized in a way where you were estimated or they find other ways.

00:27:03: That was our case with first app Something we're very proud of.

00:27:07: We say oh yeah!

00:27:08: We give a collection system To simple but robust But people aren't picking it up Because when they do art-collection management there's another way.

00:27:17: So now I'm doing this totally differently And we provide the service altogether, and so all of a sudden these things have obtained up but in different ways.

00:27:26: The only way to know is put it online or test it.

00:27:29: otherwise you can always fad them create user groups.

00:27:34: that's not sufficient.

00:27:36: Yeah I think this is the fascinating part which should highlight and emphasise.

00:27:41: Don't waste your time on things that you create internally just for the love of it or, because do you think they will work?

00:27:48: You need to.

00:27:49: And this is what I really love about The Way That You Put It Out There—the devotion is to the customer!

00:27:54: The customer comes first and what works for the customer Is What We Then Use... ...and instead going through long development cycles we put something out there with a right level Of Quality Because You Cannot Always Come With A Better Version.

00:28:08: Let's try to test this together.

00:28:09: So it is not just the first draft, you already need to put something into it but then if it works You develop a jointly based on their needs and Then your entire company Is moving in that spirit.

00:28:21: I think That tells A lot about how you're structured In terms of all Your people are thinking because they All follow The same type Of lead And then How you developed systems and technology around It?

00:28:38: And you know what, I think it was in January because we had a new colleague joining us and he has the commercial idea which is very good.

00:28:45: Automatically the group around him or their colleagues picked up and digitized quite naturally.

00:28:52: Digitizing now really our language of collective expression!

00:28:58: Making sure that you can roll out process which digitally sustain which can be shared with distributors, with final clients.

00:29:07: It's becoming a tray of addressing issues.

00:29:10: I mean...I will not address all our challenges that way but i think it gives us very clear advantage when you want to roll out things at fast speed in multiple markets across Europe.

00:29:26: And so you say, You have different types of age groups and different kinds of capabilities that unify.

00:29:32: Jean do think you unified them because the entrepreneurial approach or customer dedication?

00:29:38: Or are able to unify it for a higher purpose?

00:29:43: that is devoted to the art.

00:29:45: You said everyone shares the same type of love and passion for the art, therefore they are protectors which are unique.

00:29:53: potentially very difficult find what it out your perspective?

00:29:59: I will try make a link between two elements you're proposing me.

00:30:03: It's because we all share the same passion that we all want our clients to be best treated, to reduce their risk.

00:30:12: To make sure they are well protected and therefore have the discipline... ...to use technology which can make things efficient because otherwise you can spend your time by adjusting Excel spreadsheet which is never correct.

00:30:29: insurance can very administrative if take it wrong And it can really disperse specialized people because they think, oh my god I came here with an art degree.

00:30:40: With a low-degree on the top and business school and all that... ...and then i end up doing things which are absolutely boring.. ..with no added value whatsoever.

00:30:52: So we say if you use technology You can exercise your expertise where need is And we need it really in front of the clients, assessing their risk.

00:31:04: Discussing measures preventing them adjusting the schedules to reality and so on and so forth.

00:31:11: We need put good passion at brains under a good thing for rest making sure that we use technology efficiently.

00:31:17: That's how we have integrated AI in our underwriting process Now sharing with external partners Six years ago, when we started to underwrite.

00:31:30: there is always the issue of devaluation on the art piece which was one of structural difficulties in our job.

00:31:37: Do I give a right value for my client?

00:31:40: That's one of the most recurring questions!

00:31:44: And then we were approached by startup company called Wander AI Canadian Guys.

00:31:49: They are coming from the faculty of technology in Toronto.

00:31:54: Those guys have been really at the core of their AI revolution for the last ten years, teaching them – they're professors both of whom had the origin and say oh we've developed a very interesting AI tool which correlates valuation with artistic value as an artist.

00:32:13: And how do you do that?

00:32:18: Not at all a black box methodology.

00:32:20: It's extremely analytical, extremely interesting because it was obviously a statistical depiction of the way the art market is working.

00:32:31: since the Biennale of nineteen sixty-four when Rosenberg won The Art Market has worked more or less following the same pattern.

00:32:40: myself having worked in quantitative equity asset management business I resonated very much with this approach.

00:32:47: They are doing what I used to do, fifteen years before.

00:32:50: And so we really entered in their logics.

00:32:53: We back-tested a lot and said okay this is sound This makes lots of sense.

00:32:58: The first thing that we did was to gain the access for our underwriters.

00:33:04: For them use the system and check values when they had two.

00:33:12: When we developed Our collection management systems we added up the AI function, which means now that when let's say you come with your art schedules to all of your PCs.

00:33:24: You send me an Excel spreadsheet and I'll give access right away into a proper system.

00:33:30: And then what this system will do is check against the AI evaluation where each item are positioned Are undervalued?

00:33:40: Overvalued or depending on their volatility which will save you a lot of time because instead going one by one for two hundred items, it'll pick up all the items that have sensitivity high.

00:33:54: Up or down whatever and you can dig into this specific piece as an underwriter expert to bring your art knowledge in-game.

00:34:05: This thing is picking up nicely.

00:34:07: I think the underwriters are finding in AI not competitors But an assistant,

00:34:12: a

00:34:13: collaborator helping them to concentrate on the items which requires really an investigation.

00:34:20: And that's saving time and giving them their time too.

00:34:24: On the contrary focus is where they should be focusing.

00:34:27: You achieved alot of targets out of initial implementation.

00:34:31: you did I've heard Time To Market.

00:34:35: you were really able now to scale, to a certain extent through the use of technology.

00:34:40: You are able to use different types of approaches to evaluate risk and authenticity as well with completely new approach value And your open take it on next level which is collaborate using AI and found partner that's capable of decoding the history of value creation for individual artists in this specific markets.

00:35:11: You're doing all of these globally, so you've achieved not only other targets that were associated with that implementation but also have created a foundation

00:35:25: I'm very proud of, just bear with me.

00:35:28: I am very proud what we have achieved because it has been a wonderful collective journey A great human experience which i think maybe for me was the most important thing and this is something that I will sharing with Philippe Donil And thank him for having given me his opportunity Because It's rare you know...I'm fifty seven now You don't run startup at fifty-seven.

00:35:47: Why?

00:35:49: Well, very often people tend to have préjugés and I feel certainly more seventeen sometimes than fifty-seven.

00:35:56: Shouldn't they not be biased?

00:35:57: so we're...

00:35:58: But somehow tackling the transformation of industry in nowadays you need to be a group And for that generally has been wonderful because this saw us as kind of experiment and we made sure that we would deliver on our targets because it was the retribution.

00:36:19: I wonder, based upon what you've seen in the application of AI which is already fundamental to your valuation and technology how do you think digitalisation ultimately will reshape insurance as we proceed?

00:36:35: When i worked at the asset management industry We had this phrase when we were looking at the strategy of AXA Investment Manager, and especially on the equity side.

00:37:00: Now is the structure.

00:37:01: At that time, it was nascent.

00:37:03: and now if you look at the world I mean this clearly the way things go And people who have been caught in middle are being concentrated restructured and certainly lost either values or market dynamics.

00:37:19: Is insurance markets in fact same situation?

00:37:22: The question of AI for me to accelerate these questions Because we could imagine very digital, a low-price solution to cover standard risks with totally digital claim management triggered by whatever external factors.

00:37:42: And then naturally at the other end like us you could have high alpha things which are so delicate that you would need even better specialists providing even better services.

00:37:53: And then the question mark would be, where do you put debris and how this thing could evolve?

00:38:00: Insurance as a specificity versus asset management is that... The client is at risk.

00:38:08: Therefore, the client is your raw material in a sense that- You can transform the raw materials.

00:38:15: so there's always the possibility to risk manage encourage the people to change behaviors, to improve the mutuality.

00:38:26: Because this is... The mutualities are our way of doing things and so maybe these factors is a mitigating factor against the barbell in insurance?

00:38:38: And it could be also very good positioning for distributors because when you're an insurance distributor I think your value is in proximity with clients And in this proximity, also the ability to risk-manage your clients.

00:38:56: There you play a very important role making insurance still possible for many clients... ...in an unautomatic way because I think there is need of these advisory roles between them.

00:39:11: But if that advisory role isn't performed then the risk of the barbells are very much there and AI will accelerate it.

00:39:21: Thank you so much for being our guest today and sharing the very transformative journey that you have taken.

00:39:29: It was really a pleasure to have you,

00:39:31: it is my pleasure as usual.

00:39:33: thanks a lot!

00:39:34: So all of those who think that insurance is boring this episode clearly gave us a highlight on how fascinating this industry can be.

00:39:45: we've heard about and the way that it's tackled through technology, transformation.

00:39:54: And I clearly show some interesting insights into how insurance can develop also in future.

00:40:01: Thanks a lot!

00:40:02: This is LoveTech – The Future of Insurance with Eduardo Dalma.